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Post by <3 :] Mirannah :] <3 on Jul 6, 2014 9:59:01 GMT
I'm going to warn you guyss in advance that Mira has had a long day, so this message might come across as bitchy.
Let the raid team stuff drop, for the sake of all that is good. Despite what you may think, this thread isn't some form of punishment; we're not trying to overthrow the power system to make all of your in-game lives miserable, though from all the whining you'd think we were poking hot steel rods into your brains through your nostrils. I'm *really* upset that some of you seem to be insinuating that either of us would manipulate a situation this delicate just because of the raid team.
I can't tell you how many times Ten and I have sat down and gone through this discussion, about whether or not one of us was unfit to really lead the guild. This is just the first time we happened to agree on the issue, the first time it wasn't just me freaking out, or him passively mentioning it. We were both ready to hand off leadership at least a little while before the current raid stuff was even thought about as an issue. The only thing the raid problems did was exhaust the time we had left before pushing this onto you.
So, no, before anyone else feels like they know exactly what happened to make us decide this course of action was best, the raid team is not the issue here, so stop fucking mentioning it.
I think everyone should take a moment and review the 'Mission Statement' thread, where we *first* mentioned the fact that this guild is not a kingdom to be ruled.
I haven't been able to regularly play the game for months because of my work schedule--now it's to a point where I can barely afford to pay for a game that I never get to play. It's not fair to the guild to have a GM that *literally* can't afford to make time for it. In my absence, Ten has had to do even more than he did before--he had to be the guild's behind-the-scenes as well as its face, the frontman position that I usually took over for him when we first formed the guild. He's been doing everything by himself, and whether or not any of you see it, he's tired.
So if you're coming into this thread looking to blame all of this change that you hate on anything, you should really blame it on me, since my ditching of the second largest event on the calendar with very little notice was what allowed it to become so important so fast. And not being there to talk with people about their dissatisfaction when they felt that couldn't talk to Ten made things that much more awkward for everyone.
When he says his vision doesn't align with the direction the guild's has moved, he's acknowledging the dissatisfaction that has been apparent in all aspects of the guild for a while.
I say again that this event has the potential to be an amazing turnaround for the guild. Everyone knows what an anomaly we are, how wonderful and peculiar a thing it is to have such a tight-knit community that actually enjoys providing fun events in all areas of the game for anyone that wishes to attend them, even more how awesome and weird it is to have a raiding experience that usually puts the community first.
This whole thing is another transformation for the guild, one that, if we can embrace the change with open-minds instead of fight or fear, could make what we do a perfect model of what any guild should be---a safehouse for the members, one that evolves as it grows, to fit *their* needs, not the needs of the leaders at the time.
This whole thing could go seamlessly if you guys would just cooperate and give this a chance---your attitudes about this major change will be what keeps the guild stable, or breaks it apart.
And besides, if maybe not at this very moment, this exact same situation would be happening eventually---if Ten and I decided to elope and have kids and didn't have time for game, if we broke up and didn't want to be around each other, if we were held at gunpoint and both of our computers were simultaneously kidnapped to be used as bombs for Anonymous' new legit terrorist group and they kept snipers outside of our houses for some reason and told us that if we ever tried to log into wow again from any computer ever we'd be violently murdered. Or, you know, even if we just felt like we do right now without all of the other 'drama' for you guys to blame it on.
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Post by <3 :] Mirannah :] <3 on Jul 6, 2014 10:02:45 GMT
Oh, and, shoutout to all the people who actually have been cooperating. Thank you, you rock, hearts. <3
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 11:15:34 GMT
I thought a change was brewing, I know this is difficult for everyone. I am honored to accept the nominations. I have mixed feelings about this. I also nominate B and Sal.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 12:34:02 GMT
In Response to Dekhord. No offense is taken. As Mira's post indicates, I was never meant to be the public-face side of the leadership team. My expertise is working behind the scenes where I won't ruffle so many feathers.
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Post by shrink on Jul 6, 2014 19:54:36 GMT
I know many of you do not know me and I am quite new to the guild and activities, but I feel that a vote is a vote.(This is Sîr for those of you from raiding.) I nominate Sal and Zeenjan.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 20:23:37 GMT
For the record, we're not actually at the voting stage. Once is enough to nominate someone. That person must then accept or decline the nomination. Next Thursday this post will be locked and we'll make a new one for those who've been nominated to put forth their vision of things, THEN comes the actual vote.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 0:41:58 GMT
Just read your recent post Ten. In light of that I do accept any and all current or possible future nominations.
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vivex
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Post by vivex on Jul 7, 2014 5:35:05 GMT
Change is scurry I'll start by saying its been one hell of a journey and i'm really grateful for all the time we have had and potentially will continue to have. You've been my and a lot of others here guild master for two and for a small few of us three guilds now so yes when we hear "Hey by the way we are done now, you got a week to pick who you want to be the new leader quick quick pick." Some of us are gonna be concerned and start 'Whining' with our concerns over this change.
The unrelated Day 1: Did you hear someone left the guild and a bunch of others are upset over raiding? Day 2: Did you hear the Raid leader is stepping down? Day 3: Did you hear the guild leaders are also stepping down and the person who left is back and running for the spot?
If you didn't want people thinking raiding was the issue you might of wanted to wait a little while before doing this but unfortunately the thing that had nothing to do with this decision somehow "Exhausted all the time we had left before pushing this on you." It also seems a tad too similar to how the flex issue was handled of oh you don't like how its being done then let see you do it. But then again i have heard from a few people that they saw this coming so maybe i am just bind as always but if it was already in the works perhaps the guild meeting would of been a better place to drop this bomb than the place that 85% of the guild doesn't look at now while we are already concerned about day two?
The Oligarchy Well so far it looks like people are voting for Sal someone who i think would be a good pick but will be juggling work and school soon which has proven well for us in the past. Forsaken (Anyone who knows me knows i love me some forsaken) but the guy literally the other day left the guild a day ago with the message "I'm gonna enjoy watching this empire crumble" And Z who seems nice but i don't know to much about.
But despite that yes if we try our hardest and pull together in this potentially dark moment we can keep this ole bitty from tipping over on us. I have been going over the various scenarios in my head over the past day or two of where this could lead and i don't think it is impossible at all for recovery but it sure is gonna take a lot of work from who ever ends up leading.
The Important bit
In the end the above is just whats been on my mind since i heard the news but what matters is you guys have made your decision and i'm not going to be like "Hey no you get back over here and continue to lead us this instant." You have been doing it for a long time now and if you want a break you have more than earned it so best of luck to you in whatever comes next but Gee willikers that timing guys. I personally don't have anyone to nominate so ill continue to see how this moves along and hope for the best.
TLDR: G'damn madam that response was so insulting it gave my inner child an eating disorder but oh well its been one really fun ride and i wont regret all the fun times.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 10:02:35 GMT
the guy literally the other day left the guild a day ago with the message "I'm gonna enjoy watching this empire crumble" Well first things first: Those were not my exact words. Yes I said things that I know I shouldn't have but I wasn't reacting well to what I was hearing. Secondly: Yes, I would like a chance at this spot. I understand I left the guild for a grand total of a day, I was over-reacting to what I was told and regretted it almost immediately, especially after what I had said before I pulled my toons out and what not. You're not blind viv, but it seems like sometimes you're not sure why people act the way they do over things. Just understand this: I am sorry that left the guild in the fit of rage that I did, and I can't take that back, but that's why I came back almost immediately after the fact because I felt terrible... I just want my shot at trying to give back to a guild that has given me so much, even if I do things like leave the guild when I get really upset about something. I love this guild, and everyone in it. Everyones been with me for a lot of tough times, some of which I am still dealing with to this day (which is also another reason I was so quick to jump ship). I love everyone here and despite how much I can come off as not interested in helping others, or just a person who wants to avoid others like the plague. If given the chance I want to have a chance to help lead the guild that has lead me through some of the hardest parts of my life to date. It's only fair I try, right?
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Post by <3 :] Mirannah :] <3 on Jul 7, 2014 10:43:00 GMT
If anyone were going to mention it, it would have been you, Viv. lol
I couldn't help it--the day had already been pretty awful, AND I was mad at everyone. For starters, why the heck would *I* step down because of the raid team? I don't even raid. The only logical reason for me to be stepping down from that is because Ten chose to, and for that to be true it would *also* mean that Ten was stepping down to specifically protest what happened with the team, and all of you should know by this point that he doesn't have any sort of hidden agenda. I was appalled that, with everything he has done in my absence to make the guild function, people would accuse him of trying to make things worse.I was also personally insulted by a few of the responses, because that line of logic pretty much said that I was incapable of independent thought--that I was doing this solely because my boyfriend wanted to, when I had plenty of good reasons of my own as to why I shouldn't be in power any longer. Not to mention the fact that *I* wanted to step down a looooooooong time before he did.
People were going to think this was about raiding regardless of how long we waited, unless we wanted to wait a crazy-long time, like another full year or so. There were just too many bad thingd that happened all at once. I say that because, with all of the bad stuff that happened, waiting until this moment to do this makes it look like we're protesting the rest of the guild's decision to push for casual raiding instead of progression, and anything like this within, mm, let's say six months or so looks like we're not happy about how the outcome of the situation, and are *now* protesting it. Waiting benefited the guild very little, not enough to warrant trying to avoid this being linked to the raid team instead of just getting it over with.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 11:03:12 GMT
Viv, in the area of living in glass houses while throwing stones, that ranks up there. You want to say that Mira's post offended you and take digs at B, but all you're doing is insulting them. Sure, you'll slide in a complement or two to say how wonderful it's all been, right before you go back to saying how unfair and crumby this whole situation is to you.
For that matter, tearing down all of the nominees isn't too kind. You can express your dissatisfaction during the voting process by simply not voting for them...or by questioning them when they actually put forth a vision to lead. To come down on them harshly now is quite unfair.
And speaking of voting, you have a month to decide, this week is for brainstorming possible replacements. Put forth names or put your own in if you want things turn out well. Don't sit on the sidelines and let others do all the work to make things function while you sit in judgment, get in there and make a difference.
While on the topic of not putting forward anyone's name...how few people do you trust? Because that's what this is about. Who among your friends do you trust to provide guidance and set a fun atmosphere? All your post says is that you don't trust any of the people you call your friends.
I understand you're upset, but people getting upset helped create to this situation to begin with. We're asking for people to move beyond that and act more constructively. That means we're asking everyone, including you.
To address some of what you said though. This is partly about raiding for me, but as I said in the initial post, this has been on my mind for months. Moreover, the sentiment about not feeling I am leading in the direction people want is spot on. That isn't focused on raiding, but on the atmosphere of the guild as a whole. I even commented about this at the meeting and a few others have said as much, the guild is taking a more serious route and no one wants that. Seeing as I'm one of the biggest forces responsible for that with no desire to stop, something has to go and it should be me. Else I decide everyone else should conform to me and that is not who we are. The raiding question and people being angry about it warranted an immediate response.
As for LightPenguin stepping down, that's part frustration and part being realistic about things. Light's playtime has been very limited for awhile now and wasn't able to provide the time needed to run 3 separate raid events each week. We were trying to make it work with me acting as proxxy and I'm surprised it held up for so long. But Light has also been frustrated by me being so vocal regarding raiding as it undermines his approach, and that was never fair to him. I cannot fault him if he was upset with me or felt frustrated by the task at hand as I helped as much as I hindered things.
B, I will only say, if you want to serve, you could try a more active role as an officer before asking for the keys to the guild. It's a lot of trust you're asking for.
TLDR: Bad form Viv.
Also, I'm nominating Yon as well for GM.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 11:39:56 GMT
Since Oreo can't post he's asked me to post for him, and this is not coming from me, him. He says to talk to him on vent if you'd like to respond. (Pls don't shoot the messenger. Much love!) I think the comments about B "over-reacting and being emotional" apply to everyone, and Mira you have no room to speak about anyone in any way like that, considering you're never on to begin with. I nominate Viv. -Gavin
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 12:54:56 GMT
Ty Sassy for relaying for Oreo. I am intending to place my votes on his behalf when it comes time since I know he hasn't been able to access the forums.
To explain Oreo's comments. Mira's last post had several comments directed at B that were inflammatory in nature and redacted minutes after posting, but not before Sassy saw them and read them to Oreo.
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vivex
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Post by vivex on Jul 7, 2014 16:16:06 GMT
Forsaken We can all do silly things and over react some times but i do know you care about the guild and if you want a second chance by all means go for it. I'm excited to see how you handle the position if and when you get it.
Mira I guess you are correct people would be upset if you waited or not. I hope you know people don't think you are incapable of independent thought we know if you didn't have your own reasons for stepping down you more than likely wouldn't.
Ten I wouldn't say i was tearing down all the nominees i even said i feel that Sal is a good pick i was just pointing out that he was going to be pretty busy soon, don't really say anything about why forsaken couldn't be a good pick other than that incident for those who may not have been on during that, and i don't say anything bad about Z at all. I might even vote for these people if they still remain the best picks when its time for voting. I'm not entirely sure where you are seeing me talk about how crummy and unfair this is to me personally on that post since all it is really is me explaining why people could been seen as complaining and why so many of us are making the connection to raiding which was upsetting Mira and then talking about how difficult it will be for the three people chosen but then again i tend to be bad at explaining things so maybe i worded it incorrectly. Its not that don't trust anyone with this role i suppose in the end i wouldn't be supper upset if those three were the ones chosen, if i HAD to pick someone who hasn't been brought up already i guess maybe Moo? I don't know if he'd even be interested but if he was he might be a good choice.
Sassy Well then i really didn't see that coming from Oreo (.-.)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 16:44:51 GMT
I brought up Moo in my first reply. Gonna bug him later to see if he plans on accepting the nomination.
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